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Why do I feel like noone understands Why I am terr Rss

Posted by: Kate_Jazzy_Zachy
Actually birth rape IS NOT real, we have had this discussion before. It may have been done against your will, but to imply that it was a sexual act is down right disgusting and disturbing on YOUR behalf and it is a term used to make your experience SOUND worse.


Not touching this one with a barge pole. Actually, yes I will:

Dictionary. com defines rape as:

rape:noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
–noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
–verb (used with object)
6. to force to have sexual intercourse.
7. to plunder (a place); despoil.
8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.
–verb (used without object)
9. to commit rape.


The implication that there will be less bonding between mother and child if there is medical intervention involved is so very ignorant. 2 CSs here and there was not one moment that I have felt that I didn't bond well with my children, that is not just me either, but most people I know that had medical intervention.


Where did my previous reply, or anyone elses for that matter say or imply that there will be less bonding due to intervention? I got that quote from the Mental Health Foundation of New Zealand that said it MAY be as a result of those things, not that it is guaranteed to happen. Crunchy Mama was saying that for HER she couldn't bond with her baby due to the intervention she had; she was sharing HER experience, just as you have done and no where did she say that ALL women who have intervention will get PND or not bond with their babies, just that she felt that she couldn't.

(edited)
[Edited on 18/02/2008 by Huggies Moderator]


Kandied Heart, I am wondering how the hospital could force you to give birth on your back if there was no complications.
I have had 2 hosital births and will be having my 3rd hospital birth soonish...Not once have I been FORCED to birth on my back. Unless there is a problem I was under the impression you could birth in what ever position you wanted too...I have, all my friends have and many other women I have talked to also have.

Maybe you need to make yourself ABSOLUTLY clear you do not want to birth on your back unless there is no other option due to a medical complication.

Your decision to home birth is purley your own as long as you have researched all the pros and cons and are prepared to accept the consequences IF something terrible was to happen (I honestly hope it doesnt)

Good luck in your decision.

Mummy to 3 little goblins

Yes I know what the dictionary definition of the word rape means.Doesn't change the fact that it is being used OUT OF CONTEXT to make something sound so much worse then it actually was. That is my point. To use a term like that is totally unacceptable and degrading to those who actually have been raped in the TRUE meaning of the word.
Posted by: Kate_Jazzy_Zachy
Yes I know what the dictionary definition of the word rape means.Doesn't change the fact that it is being used OUT OF CONTEXT to make something sound so much worse then it actually was.


Rape is about power, NOT about sex. The "rapist" gets off on the fact that they can control what happens to that other person, not the sexual act itself. Rape is about CONTROL. Crunchy Mama was saying that she was held down, against her will by people with power i.e the doctor/midwife and subjected to something that she did NOT want. How is this any different from a woman who is held down and forced into a sexual act that she does not want? Or the child who is coerced into doing something they know is wrong or just doesn't feel right because it is a parent, teacher, or other relative? I don't think she implied anywhere in her post that it had any sexual connotations to it.

That is my point. To use a term like that is totally unacceptable and degrading to those who actually have been raped in the TRUE meaning of the word.


So what is the TRUE meaning of the word for you, not trying to pick a fight or anything I just want to know?

I don't personally like the word birthrape, not because I find it offensive; everyone in most countries has the freedom to say what they like, but I respect other people's right to say what they want. I don't like it when white supremacists spout their hatred of every race that isn't white, but their right to say it is enshrined in law in most cases so though I personally find it objectionable, doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to say it.

I had a fairly horrible experience as a child, and I do not object to people using the word rape when it applies and for me if it meets a dictionary definition then by all means call it what it is. Maybe I'm just funny that way.

Look, we are never going to agree on this. This post started out with a woman saying that she didn't want to give birth in a hospital and it has somehow become this us (homebirth) vs. them (hospital birth) post again. Not everyone has to agree with what everyone else says, but in my not so humble opinion they do have to respect it. You don't like the word birthrape, neither do I, but I respect your right to say that you don't like it, just as I hope that others will respect my right to say what I think.

If you and other people you know had great hospital experiences then good for you, but respect and understand that SOME women may not have. I don't run around doubting that someone who says they had a good experience at hospital is a liar, if I did then I'd be calling myself one, so why is it necessary to infer/state that other women haven't and that they are just exaggerating to "push" their views on non-hospital births on others?

After I had DS1 I heard countless horror stories from other women about our local hospital, one I refused to give birth in because they couldn't get some fundamental things right in MY case, yet some women in my antenatal class had okay experiences there.

At the end of the day we are all mothers and we should be supporting each other, not tearing each other to pieces because our views differ.

Christina


Birthrape is very real to the women who have experienced it. Their stories are out there, and it is horrific.

homebirthing mum to three boys!

You know... I didn't really want to get into this, but I can't believe what I'm seeing from some of the posters in this thread.

People who state they have empathy, who can give a dictionary meaning of the word, but haven't the foggiest what the heck TRUE empathy is... people who openly seem to think they can speak for every woman who has been "raped in the TRUE meaning of the word"... people who - despite others proving otherwise with their own experiences - seem to think that just speaking up can make a difference to some of the "medical professionals" out there.

Look, I am grateful to see that there really ARE some medical professionals who give a toss. You know... the ones who really DO respect the women who are there to give birth. However, as has been said multiple times here before, just because someone has only ever experienced medical professionals who actually LISTEN doesn't mean that EVERY medical professional listens. Just like if all you've experienced are friendly dogs, doesn't mean that ALL dogs are friendly. Unfortunately, bad doctors happen more often than bad dogs.

As far as the comment about rape in the "true meaning of the word"... that's the point of the definition being put up. There is no ONE TRUE MEANING. There are multiple meanings. Do you think that *I* find the use of "rape" (as in raping the countryside) or rape (as in rape seed) is degrading because *gasp* I've been raped? Heck no. I was raped (as in sexually abused) multiple times as a child. Then, once I finally got the guts to come forward and tell people what had happened I was further raped (as in mentally abused) by the very people who were supposed to be helping me. If you REALLY want to know, I personally found it a whole heap easier to deal with the sexual molestation - even though it happened on multiple occasions over a period of years - than with the mental abuse and manipulation I had to endure for decades afterward. That kind of ingrained "rape" actually makes the way you think and see the world different. You don't realise that other people don't go through the same thing. You don't realise that there's anything "wrong" with the way you're being treated because it "just is". For me, it took getting into a relationship, getting married, and getting a LOT of support from my husband before I even realised that it wasn't 'normal' to be constantly belittled, abused, blamed for everything someone else did, and just generally told to feel grateful for said abuse.

As far as experiences with hospitals are concerned, medical professionals CAN and DO physically hold people down. They can and do force people (literally) into doing things they don't want to do. The amount of doctors where I've seen them tell expectant mothers that their baby WILL DIE if they don't do such and such - even when there is no problem, and it's just a matter of convenience for the doctor, and could mean complications for the mother and child. Many medical professionals (that includes doctors, nurses, hospital management and more) do get into that type of work because of the power. Because they can tell people what they can or cannot do. Because they love to be able to pull the strings and watch people act like their very own puppets.

With regard to PTSD, PND etc... the easy way to put it is that sometimes bad things happen. Depression can easily just be a physical response to a currently bad situation. It isn't the case with everyone, but it does seem to be that way for some. I know that I was diagnosed with PTSD and depression. Once I moved away from the people who were mentally abusing me, that was gone. Immediately. I'm in a far worse position monetarily. However, I'm well able to deal with it because I'm no longer going through the constant abuse. It may have been a "choice" for me to leave the situation, but I didn't even know there WAS a situation until I went through years worth of help and support to finally realise "Hey, this is NOT NORMAL!" I still have trouble acknowledging my own birthday. I still have trouble dealing with Christmas. I've never experienced these things. I'm trying my best to help my children to get a 'normal' Christmas and birthday experience, whilst being unable to actually understand just what it is I'm supposed to be doing or feeling.

Again, just because you may not have seen it - or, indeed, may not have noticed it whilst going through it - doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
well said.

As women we need to support each other! Tearing each other apart is disgusting!
I came here to ask some mums who for one reason or another agree that A TRULY NATURAL BIRTH IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE (not with standing REAL dangers to mums and bubs) THE BEST OUTCOME FOR BOTH! I am sad that so many people are filled with anger over this topic!
A birth is a beautiful thing and whilst it is not the FOCUS of parenting it is an integeral part for some mums to give their kids the best!
My birth experience is my families!! Thats why its important! I want to tell both of my children, that I wouldn't change a thing about how they WERRE BIRTHED but I can't with my son soo much (I can tell him that it was mostly good, but there were thing that I would have changed!) This time around I am being assesertive and getting what I think is best for me and bub!
I was assesrtive and educated in my last birth and IT GOT ME NO WHERE! If a medical professional choose not to listen what am I to do? Walk out with my child crowning? I think not!
To the women who have had a good birth or atleast no complaints! LUCKY YOU!! Sign me up! I wish I felt that way! But I am going to suck it up and make a difference and advocate for choice! Because ultimately its about making EDUCATED choices- not doing things the WAY YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO THEM!
So to all of you who are against no intervention birth=- that is your choice. For thoes of us who want a choice, we should not be condemned for our feelings (JUST AS YOU SHOULD NOT!)!
Alittle bit of understanding goes along way.

[link=http://lilypie.com][img noborder]http://bf.l

Lets look at it from another perspective ladies.... Lets say you were in an accident and were transferred to hospital. The emergency room is a buzz full of complete strangers who see you and the state you are in and immediately get to work to try and save your life. They force you onto your back and hold you down as you are scared and keep thrashing around. You are jabbed with needles, you are sedated, you have a barrage of tests done to ascertain the sustained injuries (all done without your permission of course), next thing you know you are in surgery being operated on and what do you know, they save your life. It was an horrific experience for you and probably one you will never forget, but thankfully you are on the road to recovery with a new bunch of strangers to help in your rehabilitation. You know, to walk, feed your self, speak or what have you.

Now put your hands up those of you who would prefer to source a trusted doctor of their own who will allow them to stay within the comfort of their own home with all of their family surrounding them so that you can let your body try to sort itself out??? No tests of any sort? No one forcing you to do anything you didn't want to do regardless of whether it is in you best interests or not. No pain relief (heaven forbid).

What's that you're saying? Thats different????? Doctors have their place,

Well if they are good enough and relied upon to save your lives, then how about you give them some respect and stop slamming them. You can't have it both ways!
[Edited on 18/02/2008 by Huggies Moderator]
it is different. birth is not (the majority of the time) a life threatening thing.
i do respect doctors, however, i don't want them interfering when i don't need them to. ime that means putting a time limit on my and my childs birth, deciding - with no evidence - what i 'should' be doing at certain times, so many things that happened with my labour and birth were unneccasry and impacted negativly on my birth.
i'm glad you had a good experience, but not everyone does.
if i had a car accident and was in life threatening danger then the doctors in the er can save me. i have no problem with that. it doesn't make me a hypocrite. doctors have a place, sometimes that is in a birth situation, but not all the time, and not as much as they are currently involved.

Posted by: Sarah_F
Lets look at it from another perspective ladies.... Lets say you were in an accident and were transferred to hospital. The emergency room is a buzz full of complete strangers who see you and the state you are in and immediately get to work to try and save your life. They force you onto your back and hold you down as you are scared and keep thrashing around. You are jabbed with needles, you are sedated, you have a barrage of tests done to ascertain the sustained injuries (all done without your permission of course), next thing you know you are in surgery being operated on and what do you know, they save your life. It was an horrific experience for you and probably one you will never forget, but thankfully you are on the road to recovery with a new bunch of strangers to help in your rehabilitation. You know, to walk, feed your self, speak or what have you.


So am I to be "tarred" with the same brush as the women who have had a bad experience with drs/midwives/nurses in hospital while giving birth even though I had an okay hossy birth with DS1? No disrespect to those ladies of course, I understand why they feel they can't give birth within a hospital environment. I have NEVER said that hospitals and doctors do not have their place, they do, I just think..and I'm just speaking for ME now that birth has become this big medical "drama" that it doesn't always need to be.

Now put your hands up those of you who would prefer to source a trusted doctor of their own who will allow them to stay within the comfort of their own home with all of their family surrounding them so that you can let your body try to sort itself out??? No tests of any sort? No one forcing you to do anything you didn't want to do regardless of whether it is in you best interests or not. No pain relief (heaven forbid).


If I and my caregiver feel it is my best interests to have a procedure I will take it under advisement and make a decision. If I felt that at any time during my home birth that I needed to be transfered to hospital I would have been the first one to hold my hand up and go.

In the context of the accident scenario, no I wouldn't want to stay home but we are talking about birth which is a NATURAL biological function not an illness that needs treating, so if I were in an accident and I needed to go to hospital then I would. I don't see why I should HAVE to go to hospital if I had a straight forward, uneventful pregnancy to give birth, especially if I am not comfortable in those types of surroundings which I am not.

As far as pain relief goes.........I didn't have any for my home birth-that doesn't make me a martyr or superwoman just means that I didn't want any and felt that I could cope without any. Does that mean that every woman can...of course not and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do things how I did just because it was right for me.

What's that you're saying? Thats different????? Doctors have their place, blah blah blah...


It IS different, I don't see a "routine" vaginal exam that I do NOT want as saving my life. Being forcibly held down to do a procedure that is not what I want and usually has no bearing on the birth process so what does it serve to make me have one against my will? This thankfully has never happened to me and I did not have one ve at my home birth and guess what, I still knew when to push and I didn't need somebody to tell me I was 10cm, my BODY told me.

Well if they are good enough and relied upon to save your hypocrytic lives, then how about you give them some god damn respect and stop slamming them. You can't have it both ways! Talk about double standards!


Why am I a hypocrite and exhibiting double standards? Because I don't believe that birth is a medical event that needs treating? I don't have a problem with ALL doctors, though I have seen some rotten ones in my day and if I feel I need to go and see one if I am ill and require treatment then fine.

Show me one post in this thread, or anywhere else on this site for that matter where I have slammed Doctors. I have respect for some of them, when they are NEEDED. How about you show some respect and compassion for the women who have had a bad time with drs and support them in their decisions instead of telling them to get over it and move on?

I say again, the point of Kandied Heart's original post was venting why she didn't want to give birth in a regular hospital and looking for some support and understanding (which I have tried to give her), and look how it has turned out.

We can go round in circles all day.....you seem to think that ALL women who choose not to give birth in a hospital are the same and chose not to do so for similar/exact same reasons, even though they are not. I chose to RESPECT a woman's RIGHT to decide how SHE gives birth, if that makes me a hypocrite with double standards then so be it. No two birth experiences are the same, even within the same family and should be taken into account when posting replies that may upset women at a time, when SOME of them are vulnerable.

Christina


Dougiesmum,

Well said, and you said it in alot less time than me. I think I am going to stop replying to these posts as my "novel" replies seem to keep getting longer and longer. LOL

Christina


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